Which language to choose

Monkey Forums/Monkey Beginners/Which language to choose

Omadan(Posted 2014) [#1]
Hi all,

I have been an active GLBasic user for many years now. I must say I have loved working with it and been quite successful in the iOS AppStore.

My question is the following...
GLBasic is sort of not going to be supported a lot it seems, the developer said it publicly.

I want to move on of course. My focus at the moment is iOS, though the other platforms can come in handy indeed.

I was thinking on going javascript/html5 canvas but how will that perform on iOS with things like cocoonjs, phonegap etc!!!

One good thing of javascript is definately that it will continue and its a language used widely. But is it worth it? maybe any other language?

Of course another option would be monkey, I have never used it, the last thing I used from this team was BlitzBasic2d and I must say it really rocked and got the job done for me.

Whats the future of Monkey! is it looking good?

As you can all see I am really buffled as what step to take next.

Thanks to all.

DarkyCrystal(Posted 2014) [#2]
Hi here,
I loved GLBasic too in the past :) However, the problem with html 5 on mobile is the performance that is not effective all the time. I would prefer native versions. Monkey is a great language. The "+" is the transcoder that allows you to share on x plateforms you want, just with "one" language and in a native application. In add, this is a poo programming style that is a real advantage when you have to plan strong project.

Try it, make some tests and you will see that monkey is a simple powerfull great language ^^

Sorry for my english...

Rudenko(Posted 2014) [#3]
You also can try Haxe. http://haxe.org/
with frameworks: http://haxepunk.com/ or http://haxeflixel.com/

TeaBoy(Posted 2014) [#4]
Hi Omadan,

The future is never certain, as we all know, so no one will know the future of Monkey or any other language, but IMO JavaScript is a worth while investment as is learning

You can learn Monkey while learning JavaScript, that way you can use other frameworks such as Phaser if need be.

Give Monkey a try, hope you will like it.

[edit]: Great looking website btw, some real top apps there (no pun) :)

MikeHart(Posted 2014) [#5]
GLBasic is sort of not going to be supported a lot it seems, the developer said it publicly.

And so did the creator of Monkey-X. Just so you know.

Xaron(Posted 2014) [#6]
If you going to support iOS only I would take a closer look at Apple's new language Swift. Pretty nice and clean!

Beside that I can recommend Monkey, it's still supported but a bit slow ongoing. Nevertheless I'd say it's pretty "complete" and a brilliant choice for 2d games.
An alternative would be Unity which, I think, is still overkill for 2d games but superior for 3d games
Then there is AGK which is cross platform as well but it's more like GLBasic so maybe worth for you to look at but for me the language is just horrible (no OOP).

MikeHart(Posted 2014) [#7]
Horrible if you consider OOP mandatory. I am cuurently porting one project and parts of my framework over and i am very surprised that i can go without. The instant test on the device is priceless. And i love the shaders.
besides Agk i would recomment Gamermaker:Studio. That is the perfect 2d solution, imho.

Asmodean(Posted 2014) [#8]
Whats the future of Monkey! is it looking good?

I love Monkey. The language is great and has a real helpful community, but after the announcement in Mark's Blog, and after I finished my project, I looked what other 2D game engines exist. My fear was that after month of work for a game, the target i want to use, doesn't work anymore, because of an update of the device I want to deploy and all my work was for nothing . The problem that I had with other 2D Game Engines was that they cost a load of money or the lacking of a good documentation. I looked at cocos-js too and the documentation wasn't even existent I had to look at the cocos-x documentation and cocos-x is C++ and this is by far not my favorite language. Then I found libgdx. It's a Java based 2D Engine with a good documentation and a lot of tutorials. The Cons is that is not as easy as Monkey and Framework changes often, so that most of the tutorials are outdated.
Nevertheless, I look every day in the monkey-forum if there is an announcement, maybe that a 3rd-Party Developer took over.

Omadan(Posted 2014) [#9]
Guys I am really thankful for all your replies and comments.

Some sound advice may I say :)

I might venture into Apple's realm lol, and go for swift, I have a book on the way from ray wenderlich or something like that hehe.
I am strongly thinking on buying Monkey anyways. It looks quite solid and covers many platforms. Though right now my main focus is iOS 100%, having other platforms is a good thing if its mostly hassle free to port :)

On e other thing, is IAP working 100% ? My next project involves 'IAP consumables'

Once again thanks all.

DarkyCrystal(Posted 2014) [#10]

Horrible if you consider OOP mandatory. I am cuurently porting one project and parts of my framework over and i am very surprised that i can go without. The instant test on the device is priceless. And i love the shaders.
besides Agk i would recomment Gamermaker:Studio. That is the perfect 2d solution, imho.

For Gamemaker Studio, I have the pro version with some modules, it's a good solution. However I think that GMS is a "money eater" each plateform you want, you must pay an expensive module (199+). (the master collection is expensive too), want to have a very fast compiler for IA ? => 299 $ in add. And each time there is something new, you have to pay again...That's why I dropped it.

I have AGK and AGK 2, it's a great product and cheaper. It's a very good way to develop mobile game, but it's very oriented mobile (we can make desktop game too but it's mobile oriented first).

For Monkey I loved it and I always love it but it future makes a little affraid too.

Pierrou(Posted 2014) [#11]
Right now, somewhere in the middle of what is for me an ambitious project, Monkey fulfills my needs. I am targetting Windows, Mac & Android and everything I try is working well so far. I remember struggling for a few weeks with OpenGL graphic issues (random display bugs on some low end machines) but thanks to the community here the problem eventually got solved (the size of the textures must me power of two). As a pure hobbyist coming from BlitzMax, I didn't find the syntax too hard to learn, and I find the OOP approach convenient. I have no idea about IAP since I don't need it. I guess one can use Monkey X out of the box and use it to make great games but for myself I bought along Jungle IDE (Windows), Mollusk IDE (Mac) and Planiax Ignition X Framework before starting that new project.

MikeHart(Posted 2014) [#12]
Darky Crystal: Yes it can be getting expensive when you get everything with a single license. But when you look at the indie game dev tool market, a lot of the tools died or are dying. Because their devs don't get a financial return. Monkey. BMax, GlBasic, Gideros, etc. If you want a supported tool with great functionality, you need to pay. Which tools are doing well? Unity, Corona, Gamemaker, etc. Some are lower priced but lack functionality. But they have a market where you can add that functionality and the company still gets a share of it. Unity would not be free if their market would not exist. Heard now from 4 devs that it is mandatory to get either PRO or add stuff with extensions.
Anyway, Projects need a constant income stream to succeed. Or their devs have other ways to finance their life. But then, what fuels their motivation?

DarkyCrystal(Posted 2014) [#13]
I didn't say that I don't want to pay, I just said that they should not exagerate either... An other exemple Clickteam Fusion 2.5, yes there is no code here (click software), but if you look at the prices, it's not so expensive. Yes you have to pay for modules if you want for example export to android or Ios but it's not very expensive (2,5 X minus than GMS module). And Clickteam Fusion 2.5, at the same as there is no code here, it's a great software too for games making (some games are kickstartered, greenlighted and so on). I feel that Yoyo take us for idiots and are greedy.
Howerver, GMS is a great solution but only if you love to pay dearly each new addins and modules :D

MikeHart(Posted 2014) [#14]
Mmmh, If you get Clickteam products that are comparable to GM:S then their are not that far off. For an example, the full toolset cost you 720 USD while 800 USD with Yoyo. Yoyo, is mostly a little more expensive but not that much. Actually if you want to target HTML5 only, then GM:S is cheaper. I would always wait for a sale there anyway, which they run usually 2-3 times a year. But I got my master collection by winning it with my dev partner in one of their competitions. :-p

I feel that Yoyo take us for idiots and are greedy.

Do you feel the same with Unity and their Pro version, one needs if you want to do serious stuff? How do you measure if it is overpriced or not?

Running a bigger company cost a dime or too. If your favorite toolmaker runs out of money and drops support because they undersold their tool, then don't be surprised. I bet the same will happen to TGC anyway. The gave AGK2 away way to cheap. Their user base is limited.

And free lifetime updates and a limited user base don't pay long for full time development and maintaining a product. See BRL, GlBasic and so on.

Howerver, GMS is a great solution but only if you love to pay dearly each new addins and modules

Yes it is a great product and personally I will gladly pay when version 2 arrives with the native OSX version.

DarkyCrystal(Posted 2014) [#15]
Yes same feel with Unity. In fact I don't like it, I can't understand that they can let indies users be able to have dynamic shadows on their project and let this "feature" only for pro version...Indies (with free version) have the right to be able to make a real 3D rendering for their project. I don't think that this feature must be an "only pro" feature, this is my feel.

For Fusion 2.5, for the complete product may be, but for some people like me that just only want desktop , android and may be html5...and the dev version is not mandatory. And what about yoyo compiler ? 300 $ just to be able to execute faster some IA algo ?...The thing that I don't like with yoyo is this kind of thing :"he ho users ! we've got a great new feature for you, brand new and powerfull blablabla.......but it cost 299$ if you want it or buy the master collection !" yeaaah...and you with your poor pro version and you small module you cry :D

We can pay for having a great product, but pay each new feature is a non sense to me. We can pay for major version to upgrade etc... but with yoyo it's "we make a wireframe software, and all features become a fee". I exagerate, yes, a little, just a little xD

MikeHart(Posted 2014) [#16]
No problem, i have a different view on things which i think is legit but i can see why Yoyos pricing upsets you. I am just glad that they are going strong and enhance the product and environment big time.

i wish i could say the same about BRL but we all know how it is.

EdzUp(Posted 2014) [#17]
Tbh I moved away from monkey when I got rather miffed at unexplained problems when making my game Star Rogue, the error was simply just some of the things were stopping dead like gc had collected the data behind the scenes. Before everyone jumps up and yells check your code I have checked it, double checked it and recoded it and it still happens.

After this I looked elsewhere and gave Unity a try, I have a version of the game in Unity so it was a case of firing it up and moving forwards ( http://www.edzup.co.uk/starrogue/starrogue.html for more info ). Now the game is moving forwards I can code it and it runs brilliantly on my nexus 7 (v1) :)

I am also writing a C++ engine as well just incase anything changes in Unitys licensing terms. I use unity indie for my projects.

DarkyCrystal(Posted 2014) [#18]
@MikeHart : That right, that Yoyo maintain their product quickly. The thing that make yoyo up their buisiness is that their compiler is now based on C++ and not Delphi. The product is great (at the same as I'm not a fan about GML style, not because of syntax but because you have script a little everywhere on your project, and it's difficult for me to have something structured), and powerfull. And the "plus" they have if we want to compare some solutions is that their applications are native, unlike some products that only wrap your project in a html5 app launched on the device (like construct 2).

I reconize their work but if you don't have the master collection (in one time), it may be a little expensive in "fine".

Just for info : http://help.yoyogames.com/entries/102854766-YYC-and-Pricing-Changes-November-2014

That means that each module that can have the YCC compiler will now cost 299$ instead of 199. Just because they prefer remove YYC compiler to move it directly into module...I'm pretty sure they will make an YCC compiler 2 just to increase the prize again by 100 :D They said that's because some users ask blablabla. I think in fact that is because they don't sell YCC compiler too much and, it's more easy to do that and earn much more money with modules that are more sold than their YCC compiler ^^

Amon(Posted 2014) [#19]
I need a bit more info so an official update would be welcomed regarding the situation.

Will monkey continue to be developed or should I find another solution?

One thing I will say is that I would not be angry or dissapointed if monkey was to be retired. Why? Mark Sibly has gone above and beyond the Call Of Duty to indie developers by providing some of the best tools at the greatest affordable prices known. This has enabled indie devs old and new to realise their gaming ambitions. After maybe 2 decades of developing compilers and tools that make games programming easier the Hall Of Fame is where BRL belongs.

...........I realise the above is cheesy but it is the truth.

tiresius(Posted 2014) [#20]
Monkey-X has continued to be supported and a new version was made available 3 weeks ago. A large mojo update with low-level 3D access has been put on hiatus but as they say, it ain't over til the fat lady sings.

Danilo(Posted 2014) [#21]
AGK App Game Kit again free for a limited time: Ludum Deals for LD31

Why0Why(Posted 2014) [#22]
Thanks for the heads up on AGK. I went ahead and got a copy. I have been messing with Unity some and have looked at Gamemaker as well. Nice to check out some of the other options.

EdzUp(Posted 2014) [#23]
Me too, although I am also knee deep in writing my own engine too :)

MikeHart(Posted 2014) [#24]
If you guys have any questions about AGK or AGK2, feel free to ask away.