Syndicate remake

Community Forums/Graphic Chat/Syndicate remake

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#1]
ive just started building mission 2 from the original game. ive done 4 of my own levels so far.

the start of my level test

Rob Farley(Posted 2007) [#2]
I'm sure someone was doing a syndicate remake ages ago.

Yours looks nice thus far, although, let's be clear here, it's a light mapped model!

However, if I may be so bold to critique said model. The mud texture looks a little low res compared to the rest of the model, and to bring it up to date you're going to need to add a foliage system of sorts to break up the sparse landscape.

I do appreciate this is a very early shot though.

boomboom(Posted 2007) [#3]
I played all the way through Syndicate a few months back, its still got it and hasn't aged a bit!

JustLuke(Posted 2007) [#4]
I always imagined a modern Syndicate game to look like Blade Runner. Dunno why. Your model looks nice, but the style isn't evocative or atmospheric enough for me. maybe I'm too picky.

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#5]
.Rob. : Yes the above pic is in cinema4d, like said ive only just started this level. the textures i just did in a few minutes for place holders i dont like doing levels in one colour so i add basic texture as i go along.

Boomboom : Yes i love syndicate too.

Justluke: Yes ive got admit this is a dull part of the level when ive finished the buildings and details I thhink you will like it alot more, maybe a little early to post a screenshot.

my main reason for posting was a post asking what projects people are working on in the General Discussion section

Rob Farley(Posted 2007) [#6]
Actually making it look like bladerunner would be incredible

The old game still looks pretty good due to the rendered back drops. Had a great atmosphere.

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#7]
Cool ive got the point and click of bladerunner and the film on dvd ill have a look at them again and try to bring some of the style into my remake. I can do the rain easy enough. it the lighting thats the key.

*(Posted 2007) [#8]
I would contact EA over this one as they are currently in production on a follow on for the Syndicate games.

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#9]
there not it was a speculation, they said in a interview that they would be updating 2 of there old titles but it has been stated since that syndicate was not one of the games being updated. Peter Molyneux said he would love to do it but doent own the rights anymore EA does.

plus if you google it the reports that are all over the net state a Q1 2005 release date. Anyway there is a remake in Darkbasic and even a Open sourse syndicate project on the net and freesynd even uses the orininal graphics sounds and files. So im well down the list, plus im doing it for fun Im not going to sell it. Another thing the released version will not be called syndicate and will have original levels, music, sounds and graphics.

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#10]
bit more, I keeping these levels close to the original, still doing the texture for the biulding plus the model needs tweeking. better grass texture i found on my pc havent a clue where i got it?

Stevie G(Posted 2007) [#11]
Looking superb Pete - I loved sydicate. Looking forward to this.

LarsG(Posted 2007) [#12]
Looks good.. :)
I really hope you run with this Pete..

I've always fancied making a Syndicate game myself..

boomboom(Posted 2007) [#13]
it looks liek its going well. Wouldn't it be better i nthe long run to instead:

-Extract the sprite sheet
-Make a 3D model for every enviroment sprite
-Make a converter to load in the original levels

I think you can get where I am goign with this?

Rob Farley(Posted 2007) [#14]
OK, I think it's time for Rob's downer post... Personally, I'd go down the route of how the game's actually going to function.

Syndicate is basically a 2D game (everything happens on a single plane) in a 3D environment. The tile layout makes collision very simple, either you can walk there, or you can't.

Looking at your model you've dismissed the tile system, this means that for collision you're going to need to be a lot cleverer. Or indeed start doing polygon collisions which will be a lot slower. Especially if the level isn't broken up into distinct chunks and you start dynamically switching if an entity is collide-able or not.

Also, you've got a set of steps, these look very cool, but this suddenly makes the game 3D so you've got a whole extra level of complexity

Route finding which is a key part of the game dynamic is going to be much easier if you return to a single plane with tiles, i.e. You will effectively have a 2D grid with some blocks solid and some not, this will make the route finding 100 times simpler than having some model to route find around.

However, to reiterate my initial post... Nice model.

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#15]
.rob: ive got a hidden mesh which is a simple grid that overlays the visable mesh, its a basic grid thats used for the pathfinding and collision. I still have the UI to do at the moment you press 1,2,3,4 to select your agents. plus theres no radar at moment.

Blitzplotter(Posted 2007) [#16]
So im well down the list, plus im doing it for fun Im not going to sell it. Another thing the released version will not be called syndicate and will have original levels, music, sounds and graphics.

This looks Great Pete, doing it for fun, well if your website has a donateware side to it your final version will get a little dosh from me. It was one of my little brother's fave games on the Miggy.

MCP(Posted 2007) [#17]
Smashing job so far Pete. Syndicate on the Amiga was one of my fave games. I'll be keeping an eye out for this one! :)

Perturbatio(Posted 2007) [#18]

Syndicate is basically a 2D game (everything happens on a single plane) in a 3D environment. The tile layout makes collision very simple, either you can walk there, or you can't.

Weren't there walkways in syndicate? (around the edges of buildings and across railways).

Chroma(Posted 2007) [#19]
Pete, what modeler are you using?

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#20]
Im using Cinema 4d R10.

Ive been meaning to setup a website for a while but ive been to busy doing the game in the limited time i get to work on it.

Weren't there walkways in syndicate? (around the edges of buildings and across railways).
yes thats true. it must have been a knightmare the zordering and pathfinding were much harder to code in those days. you had a slow processor and almost no memory.

ive been playing the original alot using dos box only thing is my tft doent support its low resolution so i have to play it in a window

Matty(Posted 2007) [#21]
Looks good, I never got to play the original Syndicate (never had a PC good enough at the time to play it all those years ago) but would love to give it a try when you finish this, or even when a simple demo is put together.

Who was John Galt?(Posted 2007) [#22]
This looks tremendous. You really have to strive to get as much detail into your models as there is in the original graphics. I'm only being harsh because what you have already is of such a high quality.

Please don't limit yourself to a remake, think of it as an 'inspired by' and I imagine it will be a much more enjoyable task.

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#23]
Matty: glad you like it the basic RTS code you gave me ages ago really helped me.

Nomen luni : Thanks for the kind words, I thought after i posted this topic that I was wrong to say remake, ive got a plot idea and although it would fit in with the syndicate story it isnt a remake, although I have been making some of the original levels just to make sure i havent ruined the gameplay with my additions.

I going to asking some question about how to get problems sorted in the near future so any help would be great.


Nexus6(Posted 2007) [#24]
I nearly cried when I saw this post, i've recently started a (inspired by)Syndicate remake, but I've opted for Syndicate Wars, already being 3D, and IMHO it never lived upto the original. I'm hoping to make what Sydicate Wars should of been like. I want it populated with thousands of citizens (im looking into a type of "photofit" to make all the characters have an original face).
Your levels look great and definately have that syndicate look about them, cant wait for more screenshots.
Unfortuantely, the artistic side always lets me down and its something I leave till the end. I've often thought, I wonder why nobeody is doing a Syndicate remake, after all it was one of the best games ever, then 2 come along, its a bit like buses.

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#25]
Nexus6: ive been trying to do this for nearly 5 years. im much better at artwork than coding. Like I said im only making this because I want to play a new version of syndicate and It looked like the only way was to do it myself. the Photofit idea would be nice, I think ive got a small group of models for the people with 5 or six texture options per model so they look different. in my game you dont get that close so there only low res textures.

Jon_E_5(Posted 2007) [#26]
@ Pete Carter... I'd have to tell you that do you realise that this franchise is not a dead license and that EA still own the rights to this game. They may well be planning a remake themselves.
Its just a thought. I'd advise you to change the name and maybe tweak the art style, just to be on the safe side.

Looks awesome by the way. :)

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#27]
1.The Title will not be Syndicate!

2. my game will not contain any of the designs featured in syndicate.

if i get it right the it will look more like bladerunner. Syndicates game concept has been ripped off badly by many companys in the past, for example genewars.

Im just doing the syndicate levels for testing. Its quicker and less destracting than designing my own level at moment. once the games working well Ill really go to town on the level design part of the game.

My game is going to be story driven and the UI design ive got in mind will be much more intuitive than syndicate or syndicate wars and very different.

If I just copied syndicate it would be a bit pointless as the original as much as i love it has some big draw backs like only really 2 types of mission kill/blow up something or get something and escape with it. 2d so alot of the time your aiming at items that are blocked from view. the pathfinding is very poor.

My first idea was a striped down version for 2 to 3 players on a network, if i can find out how to do the netcode thats what id really like to do. I would have one player missions of course.

Rob Farley(Posted 2007) [#28]
Call it "Do Androids dream of Electronic Syndicates?"

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#29]
.Rob. : lol

Jon_E_5: Thanks i will be doing that. Your games a bit close to the original too isnt it? Athough with elite anything but would be a sin. love the new busts of the differnt races youve done on your site.

Guess I could call my game "Cyborgs attack :life in a syndicate."

Cant wait to play deepspace on a more sensible note


Makepool(Posted 2007) [#30]
I see you were serious when you said you were going to restart your remake, good man! I'm looking forward to playing this when you've finished it.

If anybody doubts that it's impossible to recreate this type of game in 3D then take a peek here:

And here:

Okay my game is more similar to Cannon Fodder than Syndicate but the two games are hardly a million miles away from each other.

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#31]
Makepool your game war wound is great! must buy a copy. how did you get the whole thing so sharp and i must say i love the option screens etc, it adds a real atmophere.

Makepool(Posted 2007) [#32]
Ta Pete, thanks for the praise. Our graphics are a combination of large textures and mip-mapping being turned off so that the graphics are rendered as sharp as possible. With the menu we wanted to go for something more interesting than a simple menu , something that didn't break the mood between missions.

With your game are you starting it all from scratch or reusing some of the stuff you made before with your mate?

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#33]
With your game are you starting it all from scratch or reusing some of the stuff you made before with your mate?

not quite from scratch i can't do anything with the code of course, but ive got models and textures from the old version, alot of the models have only placeholder textures. ive got alot of texturing to do, but im alot better with photoshop now than when i started the project.

Jon_E_5(Posted 2007) [#34]
@ Pete Carter...

:) ha ha Yeah my game is a remake of Elite. Fortunately Elite is now in the public domain. As the source code is freely available. There have already been several Elite remakes including Oolite and Elite: The New Kind. So I think I'll be ok. Just to be sure though it is called something completely different ;)
If you're gonna call your game something else and give it a destinctive look all its own then I think you'll be absolutely fine. :) Its looking great tho btw.

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#35]
thanks Jon_E_5 Ive just got back into doing my levels now (not the syndicate look alikes above ), i dont think it will look like Syndicate anyway in my levels the buildings are not flat looks alot more present day city and the interface is different. plus ive got a few big gameplay ideas that are very original.

Oh and for syndicate fans have a look here (not my site!)

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#36]
I thought about calling my game "Novus ordo seclorum" which means "new order of the ages" some people translate it as "new world order" but im quite sure thats wrong. anyway its on the american great seal.

Zenith(Posted 2007) [#37]
Might be simpler to module-ize out your game's media so that it's in pieces, would be simpler to add/remove levels, and then you could add more without having to model everything by hand. (And also find ways to optimize the polygon count for collisions etc) Looking good though!

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#38]
The only thing with spliting the level into bit is that what do i do when it comes to lightmaps as at the moment im going to render the lightmaps in cinema 4d if i do that on each section im sure that the join will be very clear.? if i can get round that i will module-ize my game media as you put it.

Steve Elliott(Posted 2007) [#39]
I thought you used Lightwave. Aw well, maybe cinema4d has similar facilities.

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#40]
Steve Elliott : from the tutorial it does have very similar features. thanks for looking out a tutorial but,

What I ment when i said theres a problem lightmapping in sections i ment, if i put say one building per section, and then made a map editor to place each section the shadows when the level is finished would have to be keep inside each section because if it over lapped the texture would be cut off at the edge of each section. ill do some tests and see what the best idea would be.

Steve Elliott(Posted 2007) [#41]
...just thought of your remake when I saw the tutorial - and it might give you some modelling ideas. Nothing to do with any probs you have.

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#42]
Steve Elliott: thanks the tutorial does look cool ill take another look

Zenith(Posted 2007) [#43]
Hey Pete, I didn't mean to ruin your motivation or change your method of creation. Do whatever gets the best results I say. Keep it up bud. :)

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#44]
thanks im working on a way of lightmaping the section and making the joins match. this has got to work because i was going to include a level editor for people to make there own levels out of the prefabs i create.

Matty(Posted 2007) [#45]
This might sound odd, but could you lightmap the modular components in game, at load time (once only). This way you can release an editor which lets the user place your modular sections in their own levels but when the level is loaded the first time around it calculates lighting for you.

Isn't there a free lightmapping solution in the code archives somewhere that, while likely not as good as what cinema4d produces, could be used as a step when compiling the level in the editor.

Just a thought I had.

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#46]
Matty sounds good, i have no idea how that would work but i take a look and see if its a possible way to go. My programming skills are getting better but are not what i would call good, so progress with that side of the game is slow but im getting there. ive just learn about A* and other pathfinding. I also want to look at generating pathfinding nodes from the meshes.

Matty(Posted 2007) [#47]
With the pathfinding nodes, if you are going for prefab structures could you include appropriately placed pivots/bones as part of the prefab models which are used as the pathfinding nodes by your game engine?

Pete Carter(Posted 2007) [#48]
thats what i was thinking ill have to do some tests? havent found any samples or posts abouot a system like that?